I'm not terribly new, I've just never posted. So...hello all! I do
love the Chronicles of Narnia, and most of C.S.Lewis' other works. :-)
But, I agree with this last post. Lewis didn't 'hate allegory'. To my
knowledge, he never said that. However, there is no allegory involved
in these stories. As Lewis wrote in a letter to a Mrs. Hook in
December of 1958:
"If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity in the same way in which
Giant Despair [a character in The Pilgrim's Progress] represents
despair, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality, however he is
an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, 'What might
Christ become like, if there really were a world like Narnia and He
chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He
actually has done in ours?' This is not allegory at all.""
An allegory is defined as a story in which the characters, settings,
and events stand for abstract or moral concepts. As Lewis said, "A
strict allegory is like a puzzle with a solution." In an allegory,
everything and everyone in them represents something else. The
Chronicles of Narnia are not allegories. These stories were meant to
be like "a flower whose smell reminds you of something you can't
quite place."
Here is something else that may be of interest, that C.S. Lewis said
"Some people seem to think that I began by asking myself how I could
say something about Christianity to children; then fixed on the fairy
tale as an instrument, then collected information about child
psychology and decided what age group I'd write for; then drew up a
list of basic Christian truths and hammered out 'allegories' to
embody them. This is all pure moonshine. I couldn't write in that
way. It all began with images; a faun carrying an umbrella, a queen
on a sledge, a magnificent lion. At first there wasn't anything
Christian about them; that element pushed itself in of its own
accord."
Personally, I believe there is a lot of symbolism or 'supposal' in
all of the Chronicles. It IS there. Aslan himself speaks of
the 'hidden story' "But there" as he tells them "I have another name.
You must learn to know me by that name. This is the reason why you
were brought into Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little while,
you may know me better there
"
I apologize, I can't remember what book that comes from. :-(
As to Eustace's un-dragoning...doesn't that remind you of us? The
mistakes that we make may turn us into a person--or dragon--that at a
different time, would have been abhored by us. When we submit and
repent of our human failings, we are given that grace, that help,
that salvation that un-dragons us. At least, that's what it reminds
me of.
--Raine
--- In thelionscall@yahoogroups.com, "Stanley, Dan" <dstanley@...>
wrote:
>
> Daniel, Id have to disagree with you on the symbolism of the un-
dragoning of Eustace. When compared to Lewis's theological works, I
think it's evident that Lewis meant this incident as a symbol of
Christian regeneration. Although Voyage of the Dawn Treader is not
my favorite Narnian book (mostly due to it's lack of any time
actually spent in Narnia) I do find quite a bit of symbolism that
relates to the Christian walk and I'd partly agree with Diana's
initial assertion that it is jam packed of elements that can relate
to Scriptural principles.
>
>
>
> I also think you're getting Lewis confused with Tolkien on the
hatred of allegory. Tolkien hated allegory, and considered the
Narnia books allegory. Although Lewis considered the Chronicles
a "supposal" rather than an allegory (a distinction Tolkien thought
rubbish), Lewis had a respect for allegory and wrote an extended
allegory (The Pilgrim's Regress, 1933) long before he began writing
the Narnia books.
>
>
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: thelionscall@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:thelionscall@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Himes
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 8:01 PM
> To: thelionscall@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [thelionscall] wow
>
>
>
> No, it's not a symbol.
>
> But it does remind one of salvation. Not baptism, although his
being thrown into the lake after being de-dragoned does seem
reminscient of baptism. The whole de-dragoning process has alway
reminded me of salvation, however. For when we try to remove our own
sin, just like Edmund trying to skin himself, we ultimately fair and
we can never succeed. Christ must do for us what we are not capable
of doing for ourselves, just as Aslan had to remove the dragon for
him. It was then, and only then, that Edmund was allowed to get into
the water, just as baptism is only for those already cleansed of
their sins.
>
> I don't know how much of that Lewis even intended. Maybe none of
that was intentional, but it is an interesting parallel nonetheless.
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Lewis Fan <fan.lewis@...>
> To: thelionscall@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2006 6:16:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [thelionscall] wow
>
> Hi there! I also joined recently this form and really didnt get it
at first. I really like the VotDT. I read the 7 books
>
> in a row and by the time I finished this was maybe the one I
remembered liking the most. I really like the conversion of
Edmund...his desperation when he is a dragon and the transformation
itself when he rips away his skin, isn`t it a symbol which reminds us
of baptism, getting ourselves in a new clothing, dying to our own
self and being rebore?
>
>
>
> On 12/16/06, Lea Maria <Lea_Maria@rocketmai l.com
<mailto:Lea_Maria@...> > wrote:
>
> That's still an excellent story - even if the Biblical themes
are too
> obvious in some people's opinion. There are plenty of deep
symbolic
> stuff woven in the storyline. :)
>
> For me, it's like a description of our spiritual journey &
the dangers
> & temptations we face on our way to our destiny. Of course,
ALL of the
> Narnia books are about spiritual life, but the VoDT even more
aptly so.
>
> Beginning with Eustace & his transformation process & how he
becomes
> part of the team... and King Caspian and his own struggles &
> temptations; of course Lucy is not excempt of them
either... :) It's
> maybe the most interesting plot of all the CoN, spare the Last
> Battle....
>
>
>
> --- Daniel Himes <catwhowalksbyhimsel f@yahoo.com
<mailto:catwhowalksbyhimself%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
> > Ah, yes, that one.
> >
> > Well, I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but in many
ways, it's
> > the least symbolic of all the books. I am avoiding using
the word
> > allegorical, because C.S. Lewis hated allogories, said
Narnia wasn't
> > one, and swore he'd never write one. He did, over course,
write a
> > few later on, but the Narnia series are not allegories.
> >
> > That being said, this book does have many things that
definitely
> > remind us of things of the Bible, particular in the scenes
involving
> > Aslan, as that character really is supposed to be a
representation of
> > Christ.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Diana Bustos < navy_saphire@ yahoo.com
<mailto:navy_saphire%40yahoo.com> >
> > To: thelionscall@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:thelionscall%
40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2006 2:08:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [thelionscall] wow
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > yeah, you are right! I should've been more specific. I
> > was talking about The Voyage of the Dawn Trader. It is my
favourite
> > and I would love to know your opinion about it. Thanks for
writing
> > back.
> >
> > Daniel Himes <catwhowalksbyhimsel f@yahoo.com <mailto:f%
40yahoo.com> > escribió:
> > And which fifth book do you refer too? There are two,
> > depending on which numbering system you are
> > using.
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Dyana <navy_saphire@ yahoo.com <http://yahoo.com/> >
> > To: thelionscall@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:04:04 PM
> > Subject: [thelionscall] wow
> >
> > Hi everyone, I just found this group and I joint. I really
love
> > Lewis
> > writings and I 'm thinking of many possible ways to analize
the seven
> >
> > books (you know which books). I really would like to have a
> > discussion
> > about the 5th book (it one of my favorites) for I do
consider it has
> > the most elements to be related with the Bible. Please, if
you are
> > interested contact me. Bye
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
> > Correo Yahoo!
> > Espacio para todos tus mensajes,
> > antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!
> > Regístrate ya - http://correo. <http://correo./> yahoo.com
<http://yahoo.com/> . mx/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> > <!--
> >
> > #ygrp-mlmsg
> > {font-size:13px; font-family: arial,helvetica, clean,sans-
serif;}
> > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit; font:100% ;}
> > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99%
> > arial,helvetica, clean,sans- serif;}
> > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
> > #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height: 1.22em;}
> > #ygrp-text{
> > font-family: Georgia;
> > }
> > #ygrp-text p{
> > margin:0 0 1em 0;
> > }
> > #ygrp-tpmsgs{
> > font-family: Arial;
> > clear:both;
> > }
> > #ygrp-vitnav{
> > padding-top: 10px;
> > font-family: Verdana;
> > font-size:77% ;
> > margin:0;
> > }
> > #ygrp-vitnav a{
> > padding:0 1px;
> > }
> > #ygrp-actbar{
> > clear:both;
> > margin:25px 0;
> > white-space: nowrap;
> > color:#666;
> > text-align:right;
> > }
> > #ygrp-actbar .left{
> > float:left;
> > white-space: nowrap;
> > }
> > .bld{font-weight: bold;}
> > #ygrp-grft{
> > font-family: Verdana;
> > font-size:77% ;
> > padding:15px 0;
> > }
> > #ygrp-ft{
> > font-family: verdana;
> > font-size:77% ;
> > border-top:1px solid #666;
> > padding:5px 0;
> > }
> > #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
> > padding-bottom: 10px;
> > }
> >
> > #ygrp-vital{
> > background-color: #e0ecee;
> > margin-bottom: 20px;
> > padding:2px 0 8px 8px;
> > }
> > #ygrp-vital #vithd{
> > font-size:77% ;
> > font-family: Verdana;
> > font-weight: bold;
> > color:#333;
> > text-transform: uppercase;
> > }
> > #ygrp-vital ul{
> > padding:0;
> > margin:2px 0;
> > }
> > #ygrp-vital ul li{
> > list-style-type: none;
> > clear:both;
> > border:1px solid #e0ecee;
> > }
> > #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
> > font-weight: bold;
> > color:#ff7900;
> > float:right;
> > width:2em;
> > text-align:right;
> > padding-right: .5em;
> > }
> > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
> > font-weight: bold;
> > }
> > #ygrp-vital a {
> > text-decoration: none;
> > }
> >
> > #ygrp-vital a:hover{
> > text-decoration: underline;
> > }
> >
> > #ygrp-sponsor #hd{
> > color:#999;
> > font-size:77% ;
> > }
> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov{
> > padding:6px 13px;
> > background-color: #e0ecee;
> > margin-bottom: 20px;
> > }
> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
> > padding:0 0 0 8px;
> > margin:0;
> > }
> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
> > list-style-type: square;
> > padding:6px 0;
> > font-size:77% ;
> > }
> > #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
> > text-decoration: none;
> > font-size:130% ;
> > }
> > #ygrp-sponsor #nc {
> > background-color: #eee;
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~
> "God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble."
James 4:6
>
> "To err is human. To forgive, divine"
>
> "There's nothing that spoils the taste of good ordinary food
half so much as the memory of bad magic food."
> C.S. Lewis: -The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
around
> http://mail. yahoo.com <http://mail.yahoo.com/>
>
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thelionscall/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thelionscall/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:thelionscall-digest@yahoogroups.com
mailto:thelionscall-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
thelionscall-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I can't wait.
